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Report 282
Report #282 Skillset: Celestialism Skill: Investable(bleeding) Org: Celestines Status: Completed Oct 2009 Furies' Decision: Approved, increased to 150 with a random factor. Problem: Compared to the Nihilist investable powers, the Celestine comes off much weaker in terms of the arsenal of afflictions his angel can use. Methrenton in particular has some relatively weak powers: bleeding, justice, pox and flame. The only saving grace is sensitivity. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Increase bleeding from the 'bleeding' pledge from 20 to 200. This will make it actually worth using, as well as giving an indirect boost to mana drain available to Celestines in amissio, which is a great deal weaker than a nihilist's leech. Player Comments: ---on 10/17 @ 17:48 writes: Leech was buffed only to drain more with deathmark which is still a hardly noticeable buff because building a deathmark in group combat is not a viable tactic. Nihilist also suffers from poor investments beyond scabies/epilepsy/darksilver/shackles. The rest are useless to the point that most systems just assume these afflictions on demon hit and focus mind, writhe, or eat the herb. I'd prefer a more generic demon attack message rather than the unique ones so that way our afflictions are not so easily assumed or an increased delivery of afflictions so that we can be on par with other nonafflictions classes that can still out affliction us including monks, warriors, and bards. Nihilist also has bleeding investment, which if yours is buffed I assume ours will be as well. I would suggest you focus on allowing the guardian class to better inflict overall to put us up to par with others. Also, a class specific suggestion I can make for you is to perhaps increase the time of kneel or whatever that affliction is called so that you could better keep people in the room. Also perhaps a skill akin to a mini-pfifth where the angel clings to the person and makes it harder to leave. Or maybe we should look at carcer, its too easy to escape a guardian when we don't have access to crazy stuns, prones (other than my crucify which is 7p and means they are going to run in 3 seconds if I don't do it right) ---on 10/18 @ 00:08 writes: 20 bleeding damage? A weevil does 60 or so damage to me, with splendors. I support increasing the bleeding. ---on 10/18 @ 04:27 writes: I disagree that Carcer needs a buff, as a report a few months ago explains why. It is very strong in its current form, but I have no issue with the Bleeding investment being more potent. Solution #1 is fine ---on 10/18 @ 04:28 writes: Whether or not Nihilists need the same buff is definitely debatable, however ---on 10/18 @ 05:23 writes: I would also like the bleeding to have diminishing returns so that multiple Guardians are not stacking obscene amounts of bleeding on individuals in groups ---on 10/18 @ 14:25 writes: What? Carcer buff? Clingy angels? I'm not sure where that's coming from, Romero, but it's completely unnecessary. Anyways, I don't mind the bleeding thing being buffed a little bit for Celestines, but I'd rather it not also be applied to the Nihilist pact for bleeding if at all possible (for now). That could be handled in its own report if it becomes necessary, but Nihilists do have a number of other useful pacts (Romero even lists them, in his "aside from" section). ---on 10/18 @ 19:20 writes: I don't understand why Nihilist supposedly don't need the buff on the same investment. If a Nihilist is using bleeding, he is clearly going for a damage kill or a manakill which is not helped by those investments listed before. All guardians could use a bonus to being able to increase their manakills which still don't compare to the manadrain of wiccans at all. I am simply giving ideas to the Celestians for some other affs they could have to be useful. If its an investment buff that is on both sides, both sides should be considered. balancelock on Nihilist side will be unaffected by a bleeding buff, so I would like to know why everyone is so Anti-Nihilist about giving them something. ---on 10/18 @ 22:00 writes: No one is exactly "Anti-Nihilist". It is the fact that your offense is in no way lacking as far as investible afflictions go. You have even gone the length to mention some the investments that you have. Nihilists do not need larger bleeding because of Leech. Whereas Celestines are severely lacking due to Amissio, which I do agree with. However, by no means is a Nihilist lacking offensively with all of the methods they have of killing someone. They do not need a buff in investments. While Inquisition is strong, I do not feel Celestines have much else besides Inquisition to kill someone. This is why they are more deserving to have buffs to their investments than Nihilists. It does not need to be an equal buff to both sides ---on 10/18 @ 22:14 writes: Leech was buffed because amissio was buffed and leech fell behind, and the buff was applied through deathmark AKA 1v1 only. While yes, full deathmark leech is stronger than amissio, they aren't as far apart as you might think except in the case of low mana target where the base component of leech pulls it ahead. When all's said and done, a 20 bleed invest is useless no matter who has it. ---on 10/19 @ 19:14 writes: I wasn't aware that Nihilists had the bleeding invest. I don't think it is particularly necessary for it to also be applied/available for Nihilists. I will test leech strength shortly. I was told that it was significantly stronger than amissio. ---on 10/22 @ 00:32 writes: After testing with Sheia, it's been determined that it's the affliction Haemophilia that an angel gives that causes the 20 bleeding per tick. It's not the Angel itself. If you want to raise the bleeding to be something on par with Redcap, I'm fine with that. However, the haemophilia aff might need to be removed as a result. ---on 10/22 @ 17:01 writes: I don't think that 200 bleeding + haem is too much, really. Out of aeon etc, it provides no real problem. Inside aeon, it might increase pressure slightly but I don't think it would ruin things terribly. ---on 10/27 @ 01:22 writes: Well. I suppose there is not a huge issue with it. I would like to highly impress that it have diminishing returns at higher levels of bleeding. Otherwise groups of Angels plus Teleks will become too ridiculous for groups. ---on 10/27 @ 22:19 writes: There are no such diminishing returns for groups of redcaps or harbingers or even blademasters, so I don't see where the precedent for that is.